A clarification...

[wolfwings]

...my previous entry was badly worded in the last paragraph. I did not mean to imply that if you disagreed with me, I wanted to remove you as a friend. I respect differences of opinion with my friends, but I also understand that this type of issue may be sensitive enough that my viewpoints may make some people (for whatever reasons of their own) distrust me as a friend. Honestly, I don't believe I've changed any from what they knew of me before, to now, but I've simply clarified my stance on something.

I would also like to point out, that while all the art being discussed is something I have pretty much no desire to see (it's hard to accept such an arbitrary line like '18 years old' as a demarcation between old enough and too young, considering when I lost my virginity by choice, but as most 'cub' art is well under 12, I have absolutely no desire at all to see anything approaching PG-13, let along X-rated, involving 'cub' personas at all) but I do not believe trying to ban something vague like 'cub porn' is actually feasable in the first place. Just because something disgusts me, doesn't mean it's possible to word a fair and abuse-proof rule to prevent it's inclusion in an art archive. Note the 'fair' and 'abuse proof' requirements for such rules.

As an experiment, try to word a rule (as long and complicated as you want) that will ban all 'cub porn' from a furry art gallery, regardless of wildly varying style, skill level, and levels of anthropomorphization, without catching any art by mistake. At what level of anthro do you have to assume a creature abides by their 'basis critter' lifespan and development cycle, versus a more human one? In many cases, that would make any erotica featuring numerous species completely impossible under some arbitrary 'age limit' able to be reasonably argued (in some people's minds) as falling under that category. The wearing of 'baby fur' garb? There's people well into their 30's in real life that do that, so, again, that's not a valid seperator either. Let the admins pick and choose 'based on their feelings' perhaps? That causes nothing but claims of random censorship, and a chaotic mess of claims of abuse of both users reporting 'questionable' artwork, and admins that watch for those specific reports because they have a personal agenda. Even if some of the ideas above sound crazy to you, I've seen all of the above approaches argued before at least once for ways to 'ban' cub art, or other similair things.

Comments

[aerowolf.livejournal.com]

My reaction is mixed, but it's based on my studies of psychology and the studies of several of my friends. Basically: if a given desire doesn't have an outlet, it becomes more and more focused and eventually slips into the realm of possibility. If the desire /does/ have an outlet, even if it's through porn, then it doesn't become as haunting, and thus stays in the realm of "nice to think about, but my ethics say no".

If the porn is of fantastic creatures, that's one more layer of abstraction, which moves it further from the realm of "possible" and into the realm of "fantasy".

Actual sex with human children is /bad/. Depictions of sex with human children are /not good/. Depictions of sex with fantastic creatures that appear to be young are /marginally okay/. Depictions of sex with older fantastic creatures are /okay/. Depicitions of sex with older humans are /okay/. Actual sex between adults can be /okay/, but can be /not okay/. Actual sex between consenting adults is /good/.

I'm sorry if I offend anyone. This is part of my own set of ethics, and one that I think is fairly well-reasoned. This is a topic on which I have two very strong opposing ideals and ideas -- but my ethics preclude me from applying my own morals to any other person.

I certainly wouldn't create cub porn or cub art.

[otana.livejournal.com]

You seem to have about the same ideas about it as I do. While I'd rather not see any cub porn / cartoon kiddie porn at all, it is marginally more acceptable to me than real life kiddie porn. I am still working out exactly what I think about it and where I draw the line at it being Not Okay, but that sounds similar to what I had figured out.

[manawolf.livejournal.com]

my ethics preclude me from applying my own morals to any other person

I can appreciate that. Lots. :)

I have - not without some moral wrangling on my part - found myself liking (and eventually collecting) some items from the underage genres. The funny thing is, as I explained to otana the other night, the more realistic the material is, the less I like it. I much prefer when the characters are clearly fantastical, whether they're full anthro or just sporting a cute pair of wings and a tail.

There is even some stuff I have where the characters are technically human - but they're *anime* human. You start getting photorealistic with that stuff, and I am outta there so fast my tail catches fire. ;P

Anyway, I very much appreciate and like a lot of the points I've seen you bring up (particularly the observation about psychology), and I wanted to say so. :)