Well... there goes the weekend.
Apr. 11th, 2004 11:45 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
wolfwingsOn a random note, and the basis for this journal entry...
I just went to a Carl's Junior that had self-order kiosks as part of a beta-test program.
As in, nobody but me, a menu, and time to decide what I want, and HOW I want it. No 'Did you say with or without tomatoe?' bullshit, just a big fat checkbox or no checkbox next to each topping. Also lets you know very neatly what toppings you can or can't have.
Very, very slick. And very nice, something I hope works for them.
Only two features I hope they add is some way to buy a 'swipe card' that you can program your own combos into, and a way to disable the 'voice prompts' for those that know what to do. A true 'have it your way' where you swipe your CJ card, press 'Personal Combo #1', hit done, pay, then sit down and wait.
Adjust a couple things, like make it more obvious that you click on the item in the item-box to change the toppings, and make the 'pay now' button a little more noticable, and it'll be very nice.
And you know what? I don't think it will lose any 'real' jobs. They still need as many people washing tables, and cooking food. At most, they'll have far, far fewer people that need to handle actual money, and less people needing to work the cash registers is a good thing, spread those folks out to watch the soda machine to keep it full, do maintenance, etc, etc. And it will create jobs, by adding a higher-tech component to the existing job set for a fast food restraunt, to maintain the self-order kiosks.
Sadly, I doubt they'll succeed, because I saw hordes of regulars ignore them to mob the single cashier. I think a good part of that might be that the kiosks run a video loop that has a flashy CJ logo floating around, and occasionally flash 'ORDER HERE' on the screen. Thankfully, the video loop is silent, and definately not an ad loop. There're more ads on the windows that coming that the video terminal, which I can only say is a good thing, and left a note saying as much.
I just went to a Carl's Junior that had self-order kiosks as part of a beta-test program.
As in, nobody but me, a menu, and time to decide what I want, and HOW I want it. No 'Did you say with or without tomatoe?' bullshit, just a big fat checkbox or no checkbox next to each topping. Also lets you know very neatly what toppings you can or can't have.
Very, very slick. And very nice, something I hope works for them.
Only two features I hope they add is some way to buy a 'swipe card' that you can program your own combos into, and a way to disable the 'voice prompts' for those that know what to do. A true 'have it your way' where you swipe your CJ card, press 'Personal Combo #1', hit done, pay, then sit down and wait.
Adjust a couple things, like make it more obvious that you click on the item in the item-box to change the toppings, and make the 'pay now' button a little more noticable, and it'll be very nice.
And you know what? I don't think it will lose any 'real' jobs. They still need as many people washing tables, and cooking food. At most, they'll have far, far fewer people that need to handle actual money, and less people needing to work the cash registers is a good thing, spread those folks out to watch the soda machine to keep it full, do maintenance, etc, etc. And it will create jobs, by adding a higher-tech component to the existing job set for a fast food restraunt, to maintain the self-order kiosks.
Sadly, I doubt they'll succeed, because I saw hordes of regulars ignore them to mob the single cashier. I think a good part of that might be that the kiosks run a video loop that has a flashy CJ logo floating around, and occasionally flash 'ORDER HERE' on the screen. Thankfully, the video loop is silent, and definately not an ad loop. There're more ads on the windows that coming that the video terminal, which I can only say is a good thing, and left a note saying as much.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-12 11:00 am (UTC)> And you know what? I don't think it will lose
> any 'real' jobs.
'real' jobs? First off, that's arrrogant as hell. :( That cashier job is 'real' as you put it to the person doing it for a living and getting a paycheck! And whatever you may do for a living is NO BETTER than that persons' job. They're working, it may not be glamourous as a tech job, but by god they're working and I respect that. If I am wrong by what you meant by 'real' job, I apologize, but I'm kind of fed up with the 'look down your noses at lesser work' attitudes I've encounter among techies. An honest day's work is an honest day's work, whether its as a cashier or a computer programmer.
And you're kidding yourself if you believe there will be no job losses. They'll not reassign the cashiers to cleaning or kitchen (they already got enough to run now now) rather they will just fire them and chain management will pocket bonuses for 'cutting costs'. Same with any waiters or waitresses lost....more 'cost cutting' bonuses for management. We're losing jobs the high-salary and middle-salary ranges of our economy, last thing we need is to eliminate jobs in our low-end...where will these people find jobs if this catches on?
> And it will create jobs, by adding a higher-tech
> component to the existing job set for a fast food
> restraunt, to maintain the self-order kiosks.
Well, if you count minimum wage workers trained just enough to maintain a terminal with little or no job security or benefits 'higher tech' (Yes, these are the people that maintain the few automated checkouts supermarkets here are experimenting with, I've talked with a couple of them at the supermarket). Most of these subcontractor 'tech' places even require their technicians to use their own cars and supply their own tools (with minimum mileage reimbursement).
> Sadly, I doubt they'll succeed, because I saw
> hordes of regulars ignore them to mob the single
> cashier.
I would go to the cashier myself. It keeps someone who needs a job employed, doesn't lead to 'tech' jobs that really aren't PLUS its a whole lot more 'human' than hitting buttons on a panel and swiping a card.
Our society, thanks to the 'geek' mindset and gadgetry-worship, is losing much of the simple contact with others and in effect, becoming more machine-like and cold, IMO. Not to mention the negative impact on employment. At some point, we as a society have to say 'Sure we can automate that, but its detrimental if we do, so we won't'.
No, I am NOT a luddite, I hold a BS in Electrical Engineering, worked 3 years with a major automotive manufacturer and spent the last decade in the IT field...BUT I am a firm believer keeping in tech in its place and used in a way that is not detrimental to our society at large.
Bad choice of words, but my sentiment still holds.
Date: 2004-04-12 02:14 pm (UTC)The difference is a more subtle one. Automated order systems remove one of the most-worried-about components of a fast food restraunt, the cashier. They're the only one that deals with money, and they usually make it relatively restricted to very few people at the company are allowed to do it, yet any and most everyone at the place can and will clean tables, carry food, restock drinks, etc.
Automated order/payment systems remove one of the most akward semi-jobs, as cashies are often needed to clean tables and serve food occasionally, having to hold two hats. One that is mistrusted because it deals with the diretc handling of money, and one that has to play at the 'same level' as all the other low-level 'grunt' workers.
The cashier is likely to stay employed, but they can remove the cash-handling aspect and tight monitoring of them because they'd no longer handle cash. That is why I don't think the automated system would cost any 'real' jobs, because the cashier almost always has other tasks as well, and cash-handling is usually the most tighly-monitored job at a fast-food chain, at least here in California in my experience.
Second, by high-tech, I meant simply working and interacting with repair of something higher tech than a gas grill. It doesn't really change much from 'pull this if it breaks, plug this in, turn the stove back on', nor is it likely to change their pay in any noticable way.
Hell, I'll be honest. Right now I pull wire for a living. Sure, we also handle computer repairs, upgrades, microwave links, satellite links, but in the end it's all just 'plug this in, turn this until it beeps, repeat over here, you're done' half the time for any and everything. There's very little 'high tech' and 'glamerous' unless you go into the insanely cutting-edge research stuff. Everything else is just cable, electricity, and knowing which wires of the cable get crimped into what other slot, or what switches to flip in which order. I hold no illusions about servicing an auto-order kiosk as being difficult to service, especially after seeing them service one while I was there.
But to be really honest... I'd rather interact with a screen, with simple checkboxes by each item I do or don't want, and be done in 1-2 minutes without hastle, than try to explain three times to the lady working the cash register that I want lettuce and mustard on my BBQ sandwich, and have her helpfully remove the BBQ sauce and bacon since she doesn't personally see how anyone could like all four of those together. That, I think, is the real 'use' of a self-order kiosk. It can overcome any and all language barriers, as is happening so often at fast-food restraunts today.
It doesn't matter if you don't happen to share the same 'primary language' with the person behind the cash register, as so often happens for English-speaking people (like myself) out here in Garden Grove since the entire city is where the majority of the areas Korean, Vietnamese, and Chinese families live. Here... that auto-order could be a godsend. It's wonderful to go to a restraunt and experience all sorts of wonderful foods, but the fast-food service in the area seriously blows if you speak English, simply because the local area employees will have a difficult time understanding you.
Maybe in other areas, or if you're fluently bilingual in an area language (like Spanish in most of the rest of Southern California) it's a non-issue, so maybe my outlook is coloured through rose-coloured glasses of local necessity. But I don't look at the hastle of trying to communicate across a language barrier just to order my food as being very good socialization in the first place, and that's a common problem where I've lived and grown up in my life.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-13 01:07 am (UTC)also, there's no reason that you wouldn't have to talk to a live person to give them cash. (bill acceptors are still /far/ too slow -- self-service kiosks, such as at Wal-Mart, should be proof enough of that.)
it just makes it possible for more traffic to go through, thus more money made by the store.
So tell me again how this is detrimental to society at large?
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-14 09:42 am (UTC)> money made by the store.
>
> So tell me again how this is detrimental to society at large?
That's easy. I'm not interested in someone or someones with lots of money (the store owners) making more money faster at the expense of what is a minimum-wage employee. 12 years of Reaganomics and 4 of Bush pro-corporatism show that 'trickle down' theory of economics does NOT function...that there is no 'trickle down'...the stores just pay higher dividends/management salaries/bonuses to execs, etc. The workers do NOT see the advantages of automation, unless you call an unemployment check an advantage. That to me, being as I am not a rapacious capitalist, is a societal disadvantage.
I'm willing to put up with mistaken orders and other personal inconvenience for someone else's job...and that is what it is, inconvenience not anguish. There for a while I was eating out daily...number of mistaken orders in a year, 2. I view what is good/bad by the effect on EVERYONE, not just my personal convenience and benefits to capitalism.
I guess it boils down to outlook and upbringing. If you're an *I* person, this is the best thing since sliced bread for personal convenience. If you're a *WE* person, you see societal ramifications winning out over personal convenience (and yes, I admit it is convenient).